Project Alberta

This is a continuation of "Lets do a Leadership Review!" I am hoping by making a more appropriate title for what the thread has evolved into that we might get input from more people in the know on the SPA.

I reccomend a review of that thread before you weigh in here, but in short, we need to see if there is a way to use the SPA as the umbrella organization to get us to independence.

It seems there are issues with a leadership race (i.e. Bruce does not want one?),not knowing membership numbers (is there a reason to adopt this party or start one with the only goal being independence and dropping the negatives associated with "separation"), and over all is there a way to unite all seekers of independence under one banner at all.

We need input from members, leadership (Bruce are you out there?), leaders and supporters of other groups on the following:

Is the SPA "the vehicle" to get us to independence and why?

Do we have an alternative?

How can we enlist qulified people to throw their hats in the ring under a single banner?

Good questions - and ones I have been asking for months now. I am still waiting to see what Hutton does. For some reason, he seems reluctant to take advantage of the wave of separatism. I have to wonder if he is putting his power and hold of the Party ahead of the goal of independence. If he understood that the SPA would have a better chance at gaining ground under new management, shouldn't he accept that and step aside (or at least run in a convention)? For the good of the movement?

Still waiting...

I'm starting to think and look towards the Alberta Alliance party as the possible vehicle. They are having a leadership race right now. They have an elected member and they are elect-able. They can implement the citizen initiated referendum that C.Morgan talked about in his post. What about a Ted Morton headed PC party?

Morton wouldn't have the support of his own Party regarding independence. The Alliance is a possible way, if they can show that they would accept moderates like myself - and be willing to alter some of their more questionable policies.

As far as I can see the Alliance has no aspirations for Independence and certainly the PC's don't.

That of course could change, but I think that there is a huge battle trying to get a sepratist elected in a federalist party.

The party does not need to have a platform calling for independence. It only needs one for citizen's initiative legislation. That will put the power in the hands of Albertans to choose independence when the time comes.

When that time comes (and I am confident that it will), it will be more critical than ever for a group to promote and help initiate the referendum for independence. That is what I am hoping I see forming here.

I do believe you've just convinced me. I always liked the non-political promotion angle, if only to avoid political regulation, but your approach allows for a push for independence unfettered by political leanings or the popularity of a given provincial government.

Our biggest enemy (as with all political movements) is the growing general apathy in the Western world. While Alberta seems to be the most on the ball in that regard in Canada, there is still a large and growing mire of indifference here.

The basis of that problem is that we simply have it too good right now. Most people have no interest in any changes that they would consider radical as long as they are making their mortgage payments and putting food on the table. It is a terrible enemy to battle and I am sure that all of us have seen countless examples of people who's eyes will immediately glaze over as soon as the subject of politics comes up.

The reason that people such as us here on the boards are concerned is that we are looking beyond today and into tomorrow where things are not quite as pretty if our current direction does not change.

Tough times will come there is no doubt. It may be a matter of years or it may be a matter of months. The best we can hope to do is to try and motivate as many people who are currently in a political coma as possible to look ahead and get involved. As well, we need to keep likeminded people together and organized so that we can make the changes that we need when the time for them does come.

We need to study and promote the benefits of an independent Alberta. While it is easy to point out the negatives of confederation, we need to be able to present a rational and positive alternative in independence. We will draw more people by looking at the bright side (and it is bright).

This is great input, and I can see the advantage of C.Morgans approach.

A positive party with the ability for citizen initiative and some solid positive reasons for independence.

So to be sure I understand it is a two pronged approach: 1) getting a party into power in Alberta that will allow it's citizens a voice in the direction of the province and 2) getting solid information out to the masses that independence is a good thing.

On the information side, we have a couple of academics (economists, business\law professors) on our side who could put together some realisitic scenarios for what an Independant Alberta would look like (I know we have some of these already, but what I have read, mainly is from a critical perspective of staying in confederation, rather than a positive and more widely appealing view of the value of independence). We have many business people and other influencers who would be able to provide assistance in disseminating this information and likely contribute greatly to it.

Also, everyone would have to consider their political affiliation ...

We have it good right now, but I also consider this a positive as opposed to a negative.
When you negotiate from a position of weakness you have fewer chips to bargain with, and thus fewer alternatives. Usually things do not go well when doing this from a position where the economy is in the tank. For one thing people will form a "collective" mentality and thus believe that staying the course for the time being is better than the unknown. Thus it is easier to dismiss Independence when tough times are here.
In the good times, yes the people are "contented", but the issue is that THAT is the time to go for it. You have all the cards, and if things don't work out negotiation wise you can always just go unilateral and there's not a lot the other party can do. When you are still as needy as Quebec is, you will never leave.

The big job is to convince Albertans that the time is right for enforcing changes on the feds against their will. This being the eternal angst we all face when begging for meaningful changes to be made in Ottawa.

We need two things to move us into the stratosphere:

A new Rape And Pillage Program (RAPP should be the new acronym),
and another LIEberal government- especially an increased seat count, or best yet Majority- under the premise that it was AB that voted as a bloc against the LIEberals. It would be stronger if the West as a whole voted our way, but that is a longer shot as MB and BC are so Socialist it is scary.

From that situation and the ability to initiate Citizen referenda, that's the ticket laddies and lasses.

We need to:

Promote the positive aspects of Independence, and
counter the fears of Albertans of it,
by doing as much communication with everybody as possible- in every possible avenue without looking or acting like heretics.

I completely agree. If there is anything to learn from Alberta history, it is that we must be PROACTIVE, no REACTIVE.

Even when things are good, we must be ready for the next attack from Ottawa.

It is not just Ottawa that we must be aware of, what normally stymies movements is they get off track. Internal enemies within the Province, the dogs are unleashed and they go to work. Kind of like the chicken with the sore ass scenario. Once the first chicken gets a sore ass, the others start to pick at his ass until they see blood. Then the carnivore nature comes out and they pick away until that chicken is dead.

Looking at the comments here I don't see one concrete piece of evidence from anyone proving that the SPA could not be the vehicle. It has not been tryed yet. No shots have been fired and everyone is scattering and talking about starting up another Independence Party. Alberta has a Separatist Party it needs a Leader. Starting another Independence Party is in my mind not a good idea. Reform/CA/CPC. We would not be able to get a party registered, and on the battle line in time for another election. If we did we would split the Independence vote. Result win win for the PC. Better to face the facts, SPA needs a Leader. SPA is already registered. SPA has brand recognition. SPA has not been tarred and feathered yet by the MSM. I still think SPA is the vehicle. If we start a membership drive for the SPA that is positive for Independence, it brings in new blood. If we find a new Leader that has energy and drive that is positive for Alberta Independence. Albertan's for Independence need to have one vehicle not a bunch of bumper cars trying to run each other off the road. Klein will rub his hands with glee if we splinter into various groups. We need to unite the energy of all the Independence voices in Alberta into one roar instead of a room full of voices at the same time. Add up how many groups we have now in the West and Alberta all speaking the same lingo. We all need to sing from one songsheet, not 5 or 10 or 20. Politics is dirty, it's a blood sport if you want Freedom and Liberty you will have many hurdles to cross, let's not hobble ourselves in the race to that goal.

I agree that for those pursuing the partisan route to seccession that forming yet another party would be counterproductive to say the least. I know as well as anybody how hard it is to get a party registered in this province and that effort would be better spent fixing up the existing party.

Regarding people embracing change in hard times, history backs that thesis. While Alberta has always been on the pioneering edge of policy and ideas, we are one of the most reluctant provinces in the country to change our provincial government. The UFA was in power for decades until the Great Depression hit. Only then were Albertans ready to change when they elected the Social Credit Party. Then it took over 30 years until the early 70s when there was an economic slump for Albertans to switch to the Progressive Conservatives. The PCs were teetering in the early 90s due to both the recession of the time and Getty's mismanagement. Klein's populism and the lack of a right-wing alternative saved the PCs from being obliterated at that time.

I am certainly not suggesting that we sit on our hands and wait for hard times before acting. A boom such as now provides us with resources and time so that we may prepare for the time when Albertans are ready to change. When the time for change comes, it will be in a wave and those who are prepared to direct that wave will be able to direct the change. There is no better time to prepare for that until now.

I am however still confident that we will not see a large shift in the thinking of the average Albertan until they all get a direct kick in the butt.

As I have talked with people outside this board and from my own reading both historical and in reviewing the situaion now, I am afeared that the SPA already has a bad rep amoung moderates.

Additionally, the Aliance has more of a main stream agenda with policies to strengthen Alberta's position (read Firewall). It would be more of a step approach than a direct jump to independence, but it is worth considering.

As I gaze into the crystal ball, I don't see anything motivating Albertans until the Federal Election campaign, especilly when "tell them what they want to hear" Goodale spoke in Edmonton saying there will be no NEP II, (although he did not say the would not come up with some "new" plan).

Once the Libranos are voted into power once again, we will see a rise in support for our cause I am sure and people will be looking and we have to be ready for the Provincial Election that will not be far behind.

I disagree Western Alien Nation, but then I don't have a crystal ball. I only know what I know from talking to the working class folk of Alberta, in the patch, farmers young and old and general workers and tradesmen. They have had it, they want Independence. Are you trolling for half measures or are you for full and complete Independence Liberty and Freedom? I have never seen the Alliance even suggest that they would be for Independence. If you were the Leader of the Alliance you would have to swing every single member around to your way of thinking and change their constitution as well to include Independence. Once again I think you are drawing a Red Herring accross the trail. There is only one party in Alberta that is registered and official and that makes no bones about going for Independence, and that is the SPA.

I'm not totally sold on the SPA yet, but the Alliance is a no-go at this point regarding separation. The most independent that I can see them going for would be some kind of 'firewall/sovereignty association' structure. From what I can tell, the only true separatist party is the SPA.

however, according to Hinman tonight, he is in favour of citizen intiatives, so that is good enough for a slam dunk in my books. Get them elected, enforce their policies, create a very large list of names supporting a call on some ultimatum delivered to Old Canada, and wait 3 years to see if they move on it. If not, declare a UDI, and be done with it. Meantime, you can get elected by not having an electable party not one solely dedicated to Separation, in the AA.

It is a mixed bag. What is it that is possible, as opposed to what is it that is ultimate. In the end can it be done through the AA anyways by having it look less radical, a more conciliatory approach, and when we are rejected, we can justifiably slam the door.

Giving Old Canada one last chance so to speak. I am not opposed to that tack- it has merit. Provided of course that the AA is held accountable and invokes it's constitution into policy.

It is already in there....

Recall:

An Alberta Alliance Government will institute the right of recall of all elected
officials by their constituents.

link: http://www.albertaalliance.com/policies.pdf

I have a suggestion for you... buy a membership and vote for one of the three leaders who you think will represent your opinion. Us Freedom Radio debate to gauge your opinion of each member.

Personally I know what the party says, I know what I say and I think I know where two out of three candidates stand. But I am not going to sit here and declare my pick.

I personally believe Bruce Hutton is a good man, I believe he represents a party that sees only a plan C solution. I would disagree with that but only in as much as separation cannot be achieved by any party under the current conditions. Our democracy in Alberta needs to be reformed.

The question in my view is who you think can do the later before you go to the former. As I have said on other occasions I think Ted Morton Bruce Hutton and the Alliance MLA Paul Hinman are good men. They want what is right for Alberta.

So why not help all three parties and see what happens? Call it hedging your bets if you like. That is the practical solution if not necessarily the position I would advocate.

Again if it was me I would want all three parties with the right leader in the hopes one would be able to pull Alberta out of the Ottawa mire.