Project Alberta

prowest · Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:55 pm

There is no need for anyone to eat crow (but if so, humble pie would be more preferable and tastier).

Cannuckistan · Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:40 am

Making an error is one thing but failing to correct said error after being made aware of it, in this case, is deliberately spreading misinformation...

Cannuckistan · Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:52 am

prowest wrote:

And what's wrong with that? That's how all parties and voters should be thinking!

The problem is that others have to eat from the same plate. It's a fact associated with living amongst other people...

Less Ottawa · Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:24 am

First Lady wrote:

Cannuckistan wrote:

It's unfortunate but at this point I'm thinking that Werner is just another pooch; Someone who wants to crap on everyone else's efforts without contributing anything himself...

Well, that's fine he can certainly do that... but if he does not want comments on his blog, why doesn't he just turn them off....???

Reminds me of someone else I know..... you know.... ahh what's his name.....

Try it now.

Cannuckistan · Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:43 am

Funny.... LO sez that comments are open on his site but guess what? Type in a comment and it doesn't show up... typical...

Knave · Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:50 am

Less Ottawa wrote:

Try it now.

Wouldn't Cory Morgan be the person to contact regarding the Alliance's policies? He is the VP of Policy, after all....

And aren't the more updated policies available on the Alliance website, here;

http://www.albertaalliance.ca/policies/

:?:

I seem to recall that page being blank when I nudged Jane for the policy book about a month after their policy convention in October. Archive.org indicates that it was blank as of May 27th of this year;

http://web.archive.org/web/200705212337 ... /policies/

But, I could well be mistaken about that.....

Cannuckistan · Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:57 am

Knave wrote:

Less Ottawa wrote:

Try it now.

Wouldn't Cory Morgan be the person to contact regarding the Alliance's policies? He is the VP of Policy, after all....

And aren't the more updated policies available on the Alliance website, here;

http://www.albertaalliance.ca/policies/

:?:

I seem to recall that page being blank when I nudged Jane for the policy book about a month after their policy convention in October. Archive.org indicates that it was blank as of May 27th of this year;

http://web.archive.org/web/200705212337 ... /policies/

But, I could well be mistaken about that.....

The policies on the Alliance web site are different than the ones LO posted. He's working from the old policy manual...

More deliberate misrepresentation from the anti-WAP faction?

Knave · Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:28 am

Cannuckistan wrote:

Knave wrote:

Less Ottawa wrote:

Try it now.

Wouldn't Cory Morgan be the person to contact regarding the Alliance's policies? He is the VP of Policy, after all....

And aren't the more updated policies available on the Alliance website, here;

http://www.albertaalliance.ca/policies/

:?:

I seem to recall that page being blank when I nudged Jane for the policy book about a month after their policy convention in October. Archive.org indicates that it was blank as of May 27th of this year;

http://web.archive.org/web/200705212337 ... /policies/

But, I could well be mistaken about that.....

The policies on the Alliance web site are different than the ones LO posted. He's working from the old policy manual...

More deliberate misrepresentation from the anti-WAP faction?

Well, I am simply trying to help him out; seems that one of the things he's looking for is easy enough to find. As I said, I recalled that the Alliance's policies weren't available on their website over a month ago when I was bugging Jane about 'em... I think.

Now, I didn't bother to compare them to the old ones to see how different they were, if at all... I simply don't care that much, to be honest.

First Lady · Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:03 am

Cannuckistan wrote:

More deliberate misrepresentation from the anti-WAP faction?

From a phantom who is a PC supporter.
Can you tell; they are feeling the heat...... :mrgreen:

I have sent the following email.

Any inquires from Wildrose members should be directed to their executive.

Contact info can be found here:
http://www.wildroseparty.ca/main/index. ... &Itemid=26

Alliance members are welcome to contact me at the office during the weekdays.

Jane Morgan
CFO

Alberta Alliance Party
#3, 1303 - 44 Ave NE
Calgary, AB T2E 6L5

Toll free: 1-888-262-1888
Phone: (403) 769-0992
Fax: 1-866-620-4791

Knave · Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:39 am

A party constitution that's considered to be confidential information, for members only? Can't say honestly that I've heard of that before....

.... especially since the Alliance Party's Constitution was public domain (published on that party's website for all to see) up until barely a year or so ago.... in fact, the Alliance's old website (which is still partially intact and indexed on Google) references it, here.

In all honesty, if the intent was to try and nip the request (and Less Ottawa) in the bud, I'm afraid this was the wrong way to do it..... now he's got more stuff to use as ammunition, and to burn y'all in effigy.

And, he will....

tanpro · Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:28 am

I need clarification on that one. Is the AA constitution really hidden?

C.Morgan · Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:30 am

tanpro wrote:

I need clarification on that one. Is the AA constitution really hidden?

No, but it really should be on the website.

We have never hesitated to send it to members on request.

Considering LO's history and intent, I am not surprised that others do not jump to serve his requests.

tanpro · Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:32 am

Understood. Thanx.

First Lady · Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:21 am

We frequently get anonymous inquires at the office; depending on the nature; I ask them to verify their indentity.
It could be a member; media or a rival party.

In this case I did not bother to ask Less Ottawa this question, he has made it clear he will not reveal his identity.

Right now we are in the middle of a very important merger with the WRP.

Going forward our policies are the ones that will remain in effect. They are available.
The constitution and bylaws that will be voted on, are those of the WRP. They are available.

Having mupltiple copies of either policies or constitution posted on the internet, lends itself to confusion and incorrect information being obtained.

So, yes for the time being, past documents will be made available to members of either party.

Travis Chase · Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:29 am

Smaug wrote:

One thing Werner does not seem to be aware of is that conservative Albertans historicly have had a very strong tendency to vote in a block.

If the Wildrose Alliance party managed to split the conservative vote enough to take the pc's out of power in one election, the Wild Alliance would have every opportunity of forming a government after the next one.

See any Socreds elected lately? It took two election cycles to take them from the unbeatable government with 50 percent + majority to virtually zip. Albertans are not kind to has been governments, and the PC's will be no exception.

Its amazing how fast things have shifted in the province when the Northwest Territories government was dissolved in 1905 it was largely run by the Territorial Conservative Association, then the Liberals were installed, Haultain had no more power all those Conservative supporters disappeared between Sask and Alberta and the Conservatives were wiped out.

When the United Farmers came into power their first member was elected in the Cochrane by-election held on November 3, 1919 and had an Independent cross the floor, they formed Government in 1921. The provincial Liberals of the day did not see it coming even with the AGT scandal and lingering memories of Great Waters Railway, their treatment of southern Alberta and a Ballooning Alberta debt.

After the provincial Liberals were defeated most of the cabinet ministers went on to be Senate appointee's or run for the federal Liberals

When the United Farmers were wiped out in '35 they went into voting day expecting to retain their seats even though SC made it a rough campaign and they were in the middle of the depression, and Premier Brownlee's sex scandal. Only one United Farmer MLA ever managed to return to the Legislature running as an Independent in 1940

When the SoCreds were wiped out in '71 they had their highest popular vote ever! Things were still good and a large portion of people were happy. The Liberal induced debt had even been paid off for quite a number of years. They didn't see the block of voters that came out to vote PC.

The PC's were a lot like the Alliance prior to 1967

After the Conservatives became the PC's in '59 they retained 1 of the 3 seats they held previous under the Conservative banner, they were shut out in '63 then regrouped in 67 winning 6.

Their votes ranged 97,000 in '59 to 54,000 in '63 and back up to 130,000 in '67

The common thread is that all of our governing parties believed they were invincible and ignored all the warning signs.

Knave · Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:42 pm

First Lady wrote:

I have sent the following email.

Quote:

Tuesday, January 08, 2008
The Cold Hand Of Censorhip, Conservative Style!
M.J. Murphy, BigCityLib Strikes Back

Writer, Columnist, and Senator in Waiting Link Byfield, on Mark Steyn:

Quote:

We may not like talk like that, or opinions like Mark Steyn's. But just because they offend us does not mean governments in a free society should stop them. Governments can no more control public opinion than King Canute could hold back the tide.

Now, Link Byfield is an executive of the Wildrose Party of Alberta. The Wildrose Party of Alberta is currently in the process of merging with their former Nemisis, the Alberta Alliance Party, into the "Wildrose Alliance". And (and here's my point) the remnants of the Alberta Alliance Party are issuing legal threats against an Alberta-based blog (the Alberta Alliance Watch) for reporting on this merger in unflattering terms. Specifically:

Quote:

The response I did receive [from the AAAP] came in the form of a complaint about yours truly filed with another website. I hold an account on scribd.com, otherwise known as the "youtube for documents". It allows members to publish, share, and discuss all sorts of written files. As this post indicates, I uploaded some completely accurate copies of publicly available Alberta Alliance documents, namely, a copy of the Alberta Alliance's 2006 constitution, and 2006 Policy Book. The Alberta Alliance is now asserting that this amounts to a copyright violation, and are demanding that scribd.com pull the files.

The Alberta Alliance's complaint can be read here. They are apparently quite proud of it. Notice how Jane Morgan has redacted the URLs, and cc'd the thing to the Party President, Randy Thorsteinson.

The AAP wants to silence this guy. To that end, they're trying to stop him from hosting older version of documents that, in the case of their policy book, they have in the past and continue to give away for free via their websites.

Surprisingly, there's a plug for free speech pretty high up among their core principles.

So, Link, your new party is making a fool of you, and a mockery of its own principles. Step up and give 'em heck! And as for everyone else, LOOK! More hypocrisy from Conservatives over Free Speech! Oh My! I am SO shocked!

h/t buckets.

Update: Jane Morgan of the AAP speaks in the comments:

Quote:

To set the record straight. One email was sent to "request" the old documents be removed. Period, end of story.Let me be crystal clear; NO legal action what-so-ever has been or will be taken.

Jane Morgan, CFO Alberta Alliance Party#3,

Thought he would panic, did you?

Source; http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com/2008/01/ ... ative.html

First Lady · Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:54 pm

Talk about making a mountain out of mole hill.

One email was sent; copy of it is in this thread. It was a "request"; plain and simple.

There is no lawsuit; PERIOD.

Less Ottawa has jumped to conclusions simply because the email address regarding requests (of all sorts) has copyright in it. :roll:

He is begging for a response from me via email or on his blog; well sorry Less Ottawa you will not get it.

tanpro · Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:13 am

Meanwhile, Werner Patels is continuing his attack on the new party. His latest blog entry is yet another blast. So, I guess I have my answer - he isn't someone who affects change by actions. Instead, like so many others, he is content to sit on the sidelines and criticize.

C.Morgan · Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:28 am

tanpro wrote:

Meanwhile, Werner Patels is continuing his attack on the new party. His latest blog entry is yet another blast. So, I guess I have my answer - he isn't someone who affects change by actions. Instead, like so many others, he is content to sit on the sidelines and criticize.

I truly do find the ramping up of the rhetoric heartening.

The fact that these efforts are coming when there is this sudden burst of momentum is no coincidence.

The Wildrose Alliance is well positioned to become a threat to those who support the status-quo and the fear in them is showing.

The fact that the best they can do is try to create a scandal about an email request shows that they really have little to go on. :mrgreen:

Special Ed's actual legal action against another blogger could not have come at a better time either. :lol:

Cannuckistan · Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:43 am

It seems that Werner's moved to outright lies now:

Quote:

Who's writing this stuff? In a merger, at least some parts of the smaller component are preserved, which is not the case here: the Wildrose Party (its name, its legal entity, its constitution, its policies and platform, etc.) is completely exterminated.

After all, as the CFO of the Alberta Alliance herself admitted:

Funny part is that the link he used to show the admission shows the exact opposite:

Quote:

Werner,

I am disappointed. I thought you were a blogger who conducted thorough research before posting your anaylsis.

I fail to see why you are commenting on the Wildrose Party's policies. They are not part of the merger resolutions being presented to the members.

The Alberta Alliance's policies remain intact; in full.

If you or your readers require more information in this regard please feel free to contact me.

Regards,
Jane Morgan
CFO

Alberta Alliance Party
#3, 1303 - 44 Ave NE
Calgary, AB T2E 6L5

Toll free: 1-888-262-1888
Phone: (403) 769-0992

Posted by: Jane Morgan, Calgary, AB | January 04, 2008 at 09:14 PM

The Alberta Alliance's policies remain intact; in full.

My criticism is not directed at the Alberta Alliance but the Wildrose Party for going to the lengths of creating a new party and then throwing it all away -- as you say, the Alliance remains intact, but the Wildrose Party is completely annihilated. So, it's not a merger but the swallowing and destruction of another party.

Everything that has been done by the Wildrose Party so far turns out to be love's labour's lost.

If the Wildrose Party, at least, had decided to merge with a party that was doing much better in the polls than the Alliance, voters might have been able to find some sense and reason. In this case, however, there is no discernible gain, because the party (i.e., the Alliance) has not moved from its extremely low numbers, and it doesn't seem as if that will change any time soon, in my humble and professional opinion.

Posted by: Werner Patels @ Ideas & Issues | January 04, 2008 at 09:27 PM

One of the things we often here is that "the right needs to unite in Alberta".... or we are splitting the vote with so many parties.

The Alliance has been trying to achieve this, many times over the last few years. With the Socreds, the Alberta Party. It was only logical that we try with this new entity. That is what we are about, creating a viable alternative.

If that means working through differences we have had in the past with other people or parties; we will try.

From the Wildrose side we are proposing we accept their bylaws and constitution. That is significant. We are also proposing using their name.

Their effort was not a waste. It has brought us together to be stronger going forward.

Jane

Posted by: Jane Morgan, Calgary, AB | January 04, 2008 at 09:43 PM

The poor bugger's gone off the deep end... :-w

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